How a kernel update broke my stylus... Need help!
What's the problem?
In short, after a Linux kernel update (6.5.8-200.fc.x86_64 on Fedora KDE), I can't use the top button of my pen on my tablet. This is really affecting my digital painting workflow!
Right-clicking on the pen is an essential part of my workflow. Right-click on a layer in Krita to get the menu, right-click while using the Transform tool to get the transformation options, right-click on the canvas to get the pop-up palette! ...And I'm not even talking about how difficult it is to handle files and the D.E. without right-clicking.
And if that makes you smile, imagine someone hardcoding the behaviour of your main device like the right-click on your mouse or touchpad (or anything else you have been using for more than 20 years) to something completely useless, and pushing it through kernel updates. And the icing on the cake, they left you with no user tool to change it back.
That's where I am now, and you can probably understand why I decided to write a blog post about it. Because my ability to use my tablet and thus continue my webcomic Pepper&Carrot under Linux is now tied to an older kernel, 6.4.15-200.fc38.x86_64, until a kernel developer fixes this situation.
Grub page at startup: I now have to select the second kernel to escape the bug..
What happened?
Context: My XPPen 24 Artist Pro is my default tablet for productivity since April 2023. This tablet doesn't have a proper tablet driver under GNU/Linux. But it works thanks to a generic driver in the Linux kernel for the Uc-Logic/Ugee device; that is the name of the digitiser inside the tablet, the circuit board if you prefer. I also top this with some code from the Digimend-Kernel-Module. It requires a set of X11 rules and tweaks that I document in my review, but once that is done, you can customise the stylus buttons using the xsetwacom command line tool.
Unfortunately, in the newer Linux kernel of my distribution (6.5.8-200.fc.x86_64), there were some new commits that affected the behaviour of this generic hid-input.c driver. I don't know where it came from, but it was decided to hardcode a behaviour for styluses to have an 'eraser mode' instead of a 'right-click' on the second (top) button of the stylus.
For reference, here is the default on GNU/Linux, and has been since at least 2009 when I started drawing with it:
- Button 1 (pen tip) = left mouse click; to select, to draw, etc...
- Button 2 (down, on the side of the pen) = a middle mouse button, for panning the canvas or scrolling pages.
- Button 3 (at the top of the pen) = a right click, for context menus.
The stylus of the XP-Pen Artist Pro 24, with the location of the second button underlined.
Where did the idea come from to map an eraser mode to a stylus button?
I can only speculate about this, but as far as I know, this type of behaviour was introduced by Microsoft for their Surfaces device on Ms Windows as a probable workaround for being too cheap to put an eraser on the other end of the stylus.
These Surfaces were aimed at business people and, as you can imagine, the pen was not intended to be used for drawing, but for signing documents or annotating PDFs. A side button eraser made sense to them. But what about right-clicking, you might ask? Well, these are 'touch' devices; the user could always use their finger with a long press and trigger a contextual right-click menu.
Soon after, I think Lenovo, HP and other tablet PC manufacturers were quick to imitate this new behaviour as brave sheep, and also to save some money on making styluses without a proper eraser on the other side.
So I can understand why a kernel developer thought it would be a good idea to bring this to GNU/Linux devices. Except they didn't just add it as a feature. It was forcing the behaviour on all users of the generic driver at the lowest possible level.
So I've lost my right-click on the second button of my stylus. And my device doesn't have a "touch mode".
Worse, ironically it even forces this behaviour on the stylus of my newer XPPEN 16 Artist Pro (Gen2) that I'm testing. Brace yourself: a stylus with a real eraser... This left me speechless.
The bug even affects stylus with an Eraser device, as on this stylus of the XP-Pen Artist Pro 16 (Gen2).
Can't you just customise a button on your Linux system?
This is the best part: no, you can't.
Because you see, instead of just sending a single event that could later be customised by a CLI tool like xsetwacom, a desktop environment like kcm-tablet Plasma Panel, or even a udev rule; this kind of behaviour is hardcoded in, so the button sends too many events to map to anything. The button doesn't trigger a key, it switches the whole device to something else when pressed.
From my understanding; forcing this behaviour for the Uc-logic/Ugee generic tablet has been done for a long time; but a "bug" kept the stylus of my XPPEN Artist 24 Pro out of it, and this commit probably fixed it in the worst for me. I now know it is there for a long time, because even with the "old" kernel, my newer XPPen 16 Pro (gen2) also reacts this way.
And no tools can fix it now. Are we doomed to have an eraser on the second key?
Or is there anything else we can do?
Please help if you can.
Update:
2023-11-09: It works! Benjamin Tissoires made a solution. I tested it and I'm no longer locked to a kernel, you can know more about it on the Mailing list. The solution solves the issue for the two devices I have.
2023-11-07: You can follow the discussion on the Linux kernel mailing list here.
2023-11-01: (Additional technical infos) Here are two evtest screenshots of the two devices with the newer kernel while performing a top button on the stylus (click to enlarge).
125 comments
welshpixie@mastodon.art
nooooooooo that's awful ๐ญ Hope you can figure it out!
โdavidrevoy
@welshpixie Thanks!
โopal@ap.maladaptive.art
i was gonna ask if you could git-bisect to see exactly what code changed this, but it seems like you dug deep enough to figure out whats going on. so are you looking for a workaround, a code patch to revert to the old behaviour, or do you just want this fixed upstream? โ
davidrevoy
@opal Thanks, yes, that's where I am. Thank you for reading and understanding.
I would like both I think:
โ- A short term 'workaround' in priority if someone knows a tool able to bypass this type of BTN_TOOL_RUBBER events in the userspace and give back a Mouse right click instead would be great.
- I also would like if the issue can be fixed at origin; or assistance in how I could get a better support of the tablet without having to relly on the generic driver. But that's more long term, imo.
cherryband@c.im
one small detail cuz i own a surface pen: the eraser is actually an eraser on the back, albeit without pressure sensitivity. it is also a button (has 2 different actuation modes), and there's only one side button on surface pen.
โdavidrevoy
@cherryband Ha, true. Exact; a long press on it is also used to wakeup the device or pair it in Bluetooth (or another protocol) as far as I remember?
cherryband@c.im
yes there's single, double, and long press. pressing it for 5 seconds or something brings it into bluetooth pairing mode. it also has a magnetic sensor which turns it off when attached to a surface tablet.
โ70hz@livellosegreto.it
oh nooooo! (Un) fortunately I'm still on Mint's kernel series, but I hope someone will fix this...
efi@chitter.xyz
I assume you already told the linux devs?
davidrevoy
@efi No, I can't. They removed the issues on https://github.com/torvalds/linux and I couldn't understand where to locate a replacement in this https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/reporting-issues.html , I need help even to report the issue.
5 โRyunoKi@layer8.space
@efi One of the kernel maintainers, @gregkh on fedi.
efi@chitter.xyz
in this page https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/maintainers.html#maintainers you can scroll down (^F usb hid) and see that the maintainer of the hid drivers is mentioned in the commit you linked, so you'd want to email linux-usb@vger.kernel.org with CC jikos@kernel.org and just tell them about the problem, link them to the article and ask them to forward it if someone else should know
davidrevoy
@efi Thank you for the assistance. I'll do. ๐
3 โefi@chitter.xyz
make sure to mention you are not making a proper bug report because you are not a kernel developer so they forward it to whoever can actually make the report
โwelshpixie@mastodon.art
@efi ::headpats Efi:: :blobfoxpat: good Efi :artpaw:
โgrilix@mastodon.social
@efi this sucks so bad, I'm so sorry. In the commit you found, there are the email addresses of the people involved on the change, might be worth it checking in with them? I hope you find a solution.
efi@chitter.xyz
@grilix already done, friend =P
โdavidrevoy
@grilix Thank you Gonzalo, it was done, I was well adviced. ๐
You'll find my email who now reached the mailing list: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-input/nycvar.YFH.7.76.2311012033290.29220@cbobk.fhfr.pm/
@efi
4 โefi@chitter.xyz
@grilix I think next time you should https://jort.link/ it so the site doesn't get ddos'd
โdavidrevoy
@efi Oh thank you. Very interesting tool and content. I learned something with it, I had no idea Mastodon did that.
I also just learned my blog post is in homepage of Hacker News , and the link is part of the comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38102023
Poor mailing-list server. :blobwhistle:
@grilix
2 โefi@chitter.xyz
looks like it's making ripples like a good ol' kernel bug should lmao
ArneBab@rollenspiel.social
nice! Thank you for reporting the bug! @grilix @efi
โalarig@hostux.social
@efi The ML to report bugs in hid/ dir is https://lore.kernel.org/linux-input/
โjaco@peoplemaking.games
Did you include the cartoon with your bug report? If yes I bet it gets fixed sooner.
bitcrush_io@oldbytes.space
@jaco
Yeah I came here just to say how much I like the illustration.
Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
One way I can think of that doesn't consist of having to git-bisect and patch the eraser part to work correctly would be to disable the digimend modules and then compile an older version of digimend with the wanted behavior out of tree via DKMS, although it seems that won't work for that many future Linux version.
graves501@fosstodon.org
Is there an option to just stick with LTS kernels on Fedora? I usually stick with LTS kernels because of situations like this ๐ค But it's good that you're reporting this issue.
piggo@piggo.space
A similar "improvement" broke scrolling on my MX Master mouse. Luckily that was handled in libinput and they later added a special config you can set to disable "HID scrolling" again
sybren@mastodon.art
oh damn, that's bad! Why on earth wouldn't they just send another button event that any user space app could use?
ArneBab@rollenspiel.social
Since the kernel has a long standing policy not to break userspace, I expect that they will fix this โ for example by accepting that the original commit had a conceptual problem that wasnโt detected due to the bug.
They write "These changes are tested in the following hid-tools regression tests:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libevdev/hid-tools/-/merge_requests/127 " and I would hope that without the other bug this would have detected that the stylus button gets rendered useless that way.
But first of all: Good luck!
utopify_org@veganism.social
This is just beautiful ๐
Never had such a beautiful illustration of Linux breaking stuff.
RyunoKi@layer8.space
๐ Who would be best to talk about this, @cas ?
Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org
I believe most of this stylus support was written by @jose_exposito. Maybe he can help fix this?
Also, my reading of https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/commits/fedora-6.5/drivers/hid/hid-input.c makes me think that it was busted by this commit?
https://gitlab.com/cki-project/kernel-ark/-/commit/6360b396e81b5295aa9ee3d4f9af13b9bbbbac65
Please file a bug report in the Red Hat Bugzilla against the kernel package. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)jose_exposito@fosstodon.org
@Conan_Kudo indeed, I added support for a bunch of XP-Pen tablets, but none of them was an Artist.
I believe the commit you mentioned is causing the issue. Since you already submitted it upstream, the author will probably look into it and fix it.
If you are willing to test a with me a kernel driver I can add support for your tablet on the UCLogic driver and get it to work with no/minimum configuration. Feel free to ping me and I'll help you.
davidrevoy
@jose_exposito Hey Jose, thank you for your work on the built-in drivers I'm familiar with your work thanks to the news on Phoronix ( https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-5.20-XP-PEN-Deco-L or https://www.phoronix.com/news/XP-PEN-Deco-01-V2-Linux-6.2 ) that I read carefully, especially when it is about tablets ๐
Sure, I can collaborate and give you as many feedback as necessary and tests. Thank you! You know my email now (you are in CC on mail thread "Requesting your attention and expertise regarding a Tablet/Kernel issue")
@Conan_Kudo
3 โjose_exposito@fosstodon.org
@Conan_Kudo It looks like Benjamin is going to handle it. Which is great, because I can only work on this during the weekend and he'll be able to provide a fix way faster :)
โdavidrevoy
@jose_exposito Thanks, I just read the mailing-list. I'll go back in the backlog of it to provide all information asked. I'm not sure if Eric answer contains everything.
@Conan_Kudo
โ4censord@unfug.social
If you are able to compile a kernel by yourself, you could test if it actually is the one commit that you mentioned in your blog post.
Also, definitely let the kernel devs know that this broke your system.
Hobs@social.linux.pizza
Ask the linux devs. @torvalds is on here at least. As well as @linux and @vegard
You should probably file a bug report on github though.
Hobs@social.linux.pizza
@torvalds @linux @vegard
Or find the maintainer of the driver and report to them
davidrevoy
@Hobs Hi, that's what I'll try. But it is a bit more complicate to report a bug to the kernel than just opening a thread on the Github "issues". If you look at it, you'll not even see such a section on Github: https://github.com/torvalds/linux
Here is how you have to do it: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/reporting-issues.html , and even the TL:DR; would require a TL:DR; written by someone not confusing, imo. Good luck.
โHobs@social.linux.pizza
You have the contact info for the main dev right there in the link in your blog post. E-mail him https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/hid/hid-input.c
โopal@ap.maladaptive.art
@Hobs @torvalds @vegard i'd sooner post to lkml since github seems to be secondary for their devs to check โ
opal@ap.maladaptive.art
@Hobs @torvalds @vegard ah @efi got to it before me, yeah linux-usb@ โ
hinindil@paravielfalt.zone
That's the best way to illustrate a bug.
โstandingpad@mastodon.art
this is something open source projects sadly do too often. Just recently, Blender changed how point lights were interpeted lately, without any discussion on older files or implications for non-photorealistic rendering (that's been fun back and forth with the devs and I)
I suggest letting the kernel devs know, I'd imagine they'd take this pretty seriously (since rule number 1 of Linux kernel development is "don't break the userspace")
standingpad@mastodon.art
looking at the Git history, this might be the culprit: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/276e14e6c3993317257e1787e93b7166fbc30905
davidrevoy
@standingpad Thank you, that's also where my conclusion (the link in the last paragraph) is redirected.
Unfortunately, letting the kernel dev knowing about this is really hard (no 'issues' on Github, and the doc for reporting is .... well https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/reporting-issues.html ). Doing a blog post was my best option.
vegard@mastodon.social
@standingpad So normally you would report this to your distribution (Fedora) since this is a distro kernel -- upstream maintainers don't really know what patches are in your fedora kernel and can't take responsibility for it.
That said, it looks like the linked commit is a fix that probably isn't in your newer kernel, so there's some hope an even newer Fedora kernel will "magically" have the fix in a little while.
vegard@mastodon.social
@standingpad If you're up for building your own kernel you could try taking the fedora config (probably one of your /boot/config* files), copy it to .config in the kernel source tree and run "make binrpm-pkg" to build it.
davidrevoy
@vegard @standingpad Thank you for the information.
Ping @efi ; do you think it is still safe to send the issue to the kernel mailing list? I don't want to do any "faux pas" ๐
efi@chitter.xyz
@vegard @standingpad maybe not, send it directly to the maintainer as a regular mail
โdavidrevoy
@efi @vegard @standingpad Ok.
davidrevoy
@efi @vegard @standingpad Email sent to four maintainer and reviewer involved, and Jiri Kosina just replied adding CC to 9 other people involved and mailing-list. ๐
Thanks for the recommandation. I think the info is in the right pipes now.
7 โefi@chitter.xyz
๐
โstandingpad@mastodon.art
@vegard oh yeah, I forgot most distros patch the kernel (I use an unpatched kernel), that would certainly add an additional variable to this issue
โgregkh@social.kernel.org
@standingpad Use email, that's how the kernel is developed and how bugs are reported, send it to the author of that commit and the mailing list listed in the MAINTAINERS file for the subsystem.
No need to file some ticket in some random web form with some odd account, email. It's simple, and easy (note, turn off HTML mode for it please.)
Good luck! โ
davidrevoy
@gregkh Thank you about the formating tip (in plain text mode) I'll do my best!
@standingpad
โelly@donotsta.re
Mind capturing libinput events? Does it correspond to 0x141? โ
davidrevoy
@elly Mind capturing, mind capturing :blobaww: I have to try! ๐คฃ
(About the name/id of the events; I added a new screenshot at the end of the article; with evtest of the two tablet while pressing the button.)
โelly@donotsta.re
Oh, that works actually! Thanks, will take a look (but I've got a feeling that someone will drop a patch in within minutes now lol) โ
kapellosaur@stctp.zone
oh god, this sounds like a nightmare. I'm also very reliant on that button on my Wacom tablet being a right click.
davidrevoy
@kapellosaur Thank you for understanding. I hope it will be fixed!
(If it does, I'll draw a Tux repairing the stylus โบ๏ธ )
4 โkapellosaur@stctp.zone
I'm a Linux user myself so I'm now forbidding myself from updating my kernel until further notice ๐
โgrum999@masto.ai
didn't updated yet my kernel.. take care the old one that is working is not removed by an "autoclean" or something like this :ablobcatknitsweats:
I have to check, but few years ago a kernel change broke my XP Pen tablet recognition too
before this change, tweaking setup was easy, after it was really hard (had to play with udev to fix broken things, not on pen side but more related to tablet buttons)
AlexanderMars@mastodon.social
I use Krita/Inkscape on my SP6 running Linux and know this type of pain very well.
โjakob@mastodon.chaosfield.at
I think I might have some interesting context for this:
Wacom "Penabled" does not have a second button but you can still get pens that have a second button for it. In those cases the second button switches the pen into a mode where the tablet thinks it's an eraser.
The Wacom Linux drivers have a workaround for that that detects when the pen suddenly turns into an eraser and interprets this as "upper button pressed".
Might be related in some way?
davidrevoy
@jakob Hi, yes, it is probably related. I met this type of button on the Lenovo Yoga 370 (my full review and workaround: https://www.davidrevoy.com/article976/lenovo-yoga-370-on-gnu-linux-technical-companion-article ) It's still possible to inject something via xsetwacom. The syntax is a bit weird:
xsetwacom --set "$YogaEraser" Button 1 "key +ctrl button 1 key -ctrl" # color picker
(for a Ctrl color picker modifier) and an eraser icon still appears on Krita, but it pick colors. On the XpPen, this workaround even doesn't work.
2 โjakob@mastodon.chaosfield.at
Yeah sadly the configuration options of most other tablet drivers on Linux are "meh" compared to the Wacom driver (and even that isn't perfect).
โI would really like seeing the Wacom driver to be changed into something more generic so that xsetwacom (and GUI tools for it) work for all the other brands as well...
davidrevoy
@jakob Same, a universal "tablet GUI" cross distro and cross D.E. would be great...
โzaki@bassam.social
Yes there is one Open Tablet Driver https://opentabletdriver.net/
davidrevoy
@zaki Hi, Zakaria; oh, there are more than one but they are rarely functional or working.
Have you tested it on Linux? with what tablet model?
@jakob
zaki@bassam.social
Of course, I already made a tutorial about it in my channel (in Arabic)
โhttps://youtu.be/Yfmutvs3yxI?si=BO-qBCtxUKSWHF08
It's really great, my table is Gaomon M10K pro, BTW it's working without kernel injection, just in the user layer
davidrevoy
@zaki @jakob Very interesting! Thanks for the link and for testing.
I have also a variant of this tablet (the 2018, not the pro model) https://www.davidrevoy.com/article870/review-gaomon-m10k-2018-graphic-tablet-on-linux-for-digital-painting
I'll test ๐ Got Huion, Xp-Pens, and more at home to see how it works. :blobaww:
(edit: perfect, you detail all the steps, that's great!)
zaki@bassam.social
You are welcome ๐น โ
zaki@bassam.social
There is more x)
https://youtu.be/pTWOjonO0po โ
ElectroFetish@mastodon.social
I have a principle:
If you want stability, it's better not to touch
Any renewal is evil!
Maybe someone doesn't like it, but it's the only way to get a working machine always.
davidrevoy
@ElectroFetish I agree. I'm tempted to change my machine from Fedora KDE to Debian KDE to increase my peace of mind.
โopal@ap.maladaptive.art
@ElectroFetish until things still manage to break โ
lufthans@mastodon.social
when is your book of illustrated bug reports coming out?
:)
davidrevoy
@lufthans ๐คฃ ๐คฃ ๐คฃ
2 โploum@mamot.fr
: mais comment tโes arrivรฉ ร la conclusion que cโรฉtait le kernel?
Jโaurais investiguรฉ tout tout tout avant le kernel!
davidrevoy
@ploum Ben j'ai investiguรฉ tout tout tout avant le kernel. En fait, j'ai repris toute la stack, de libinput avec libwacom dedans, au module Digimend qui plug des truc pour tablets jusqu'au Kernel. J'ai choper des bons cernes et une nuit blanche dans le processus; mais chez moi, ce genre d'annomalie est litteralement le truc qui m'empรชche de dormir. Je pense qu'on est beaucoup comme รงa chez les geek libristes.
5 โploum@mamot.fr
: je me disais aussi. Ton post rend le tout fort simple mais รงa sent les journรฉes moisies et improductives ร fouiller les mailing-lists, les repo git.
Mais, au final, tโauras fait la premiรจre page de HN et tu recevras ptรชtre un bisou de Linus Torvalds pour raconter ร tes petits enfants.
Yep, cโest รงa le libre ! ๐
Courage et bon reposโฏ(en espรฉrant que รงa soit bientรดt rรฉsolu)
(dโailleurs tโas vu lโheureโฏ?)
โdavidrevoy
@ploum Oh, je savais pas que c'รฉtait sur HN, merci!
(et oui oui, j'ai fait le tour des issues de plein de projets, des mailing lists le tout en maudissant les moteurs de recherches 'modernes' ou je trouve plus rien.)
(oops pour l'heure, en plus il faut que je finisse mon sac: demain voyage jusque Saint-Brieuc pour l'expo malgrรจs vents et marรฉs!)
4 โcrlf@infosec.exchange
It's like an actual https://xkcd.com/1172/ They fix a bug affecting the XPPEN Artist 24 Pro, and this appears pointing out that broke his workflow and Linux shouldn't be forcing two eraser buttons on stylus devices, go figure.
#xkcd #xkcd1172
kkarhan@mstdn.social
I do recommend you to open up an #issue with the #LKML if this issue is also reproducible on other distros with the same or newer #kernel.
Your post does show that you did your due diligence and found the culprit that caused that problem...
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/reporting-issues.html
davidrevoy
@kkarhan Hi, thanks. It was done by developers and poeple expert in this area. They relayed my email to the mailing-list. I can't do more because I own only a single email adress at @protonmail , but it is not an email provider admited by the kernel mailing list (src: the doc of the kernel) as protonmail can't do plain text with proper line breaks and the encryption makes friction on the mailing-list. Something I wish I knew when I moved to Proton 5 years ago... So, I can't interact.
3 โkkarhan@mstdn.social
so let me get this straight: @protonmail fucks with customers' eMails?
That's a huge no-go IMHO because that's just inexcuseable!
Not that I'd consider #ProtonMail at all but it's just a big red flag to me even if I were to use them, because if a provider is #paywalling #IMAP & #SMTP they should be better than any generic "#Freemailer" that doesn't.
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)Because that makes it useless for a lot of my tech stack: What's the point of an eMail provider if I can't use it with a
davidrevoy
@kkarhan @protonmail Yes, source: https://docs.kernel.org/process/email-clients.html , the last item on bottom of the page.
"Unless a way to disable this "feature" is introduced, Proton Mail is unsuited to kernel development."
2 โkkarhan@mstdn.social
Seriously, WTF @protonmail ?
#YouHadOneJob as #eMail #Provider and that is to get shit reliably sent and recieved.
If that's too hard then how should anyone trust them re: #security and #privacy?
Spoiler: Noine should!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCx_G_R0UmQ
kkarhan@mstdn.social
@protonmail
The longer I look at them, the more it reminds me of #CryptoAG...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG
It has the same "stench" and "notoriety" to the point that I'd call the same 3-letter-agencies "criminally incompetent" if they didn't already place multiple people inside if not set it up as replacement for #MINERVA...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeXaYR4ed9c
protonmail@mastodon.social
@kkarhan There is no comparison between Crypto AG and us. Our encryption occurs client-side, our cryptographic code is open source ( https://proton.me/community/open-source ), and our tech can and has been independently verified. More here: https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy
kkarhan@mstdn.social
@protonmail How can the end-user know that they're getting what you claimed and has been verified?
Spoiler: They can't!
So again that's some marketing speak.
I'd rather have you be honest like https://cock.li instead of insulting my intellect.
Needless to say.that fucking around with the contents of any eMail is a big No-Go as it bricks my workflows as well AND you - as any other eMail provider - have no business doing so!!!
kkarhan@mstdn.social
@protonmail if you actually cared about #privacy and #anonymity you'd not only fix your #OnionService AND allow anonymous payment (i.e. #Monero :monero:) but also help users to setup proper #E2EE like PGP/MIME and instead of fucking around with their eMail contents in transit, offer something that would actually make sense like the option to block unencrypted eMail going out and/or in.
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)But that would require effort beyond
protonmail@mastodon.social
@kkarhan We have a working onion service: https://proton.me/tor. If you encountered any issues with it, please contact us at: https://proton.me/support/contact.
We allow alternative payment options, such as Bitcoin and cash: https://proton.me/support/payment-options.
Proton Mail gives users the opportunity to import, export, backup, generate, and delete their own PGP keys, as you can learn here: https://proton.me/support/pgp-key-management
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)kkarhan@mstdn.social
@protonmail Have you fixed the issues outlined in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeXaYR4ed9c
Yes or no??
protonmail@mastodon.social
@kkarhan It's been proven in multiple independent audits as well as court cases that our systems work as advertised.
kimschulz@social.data.coop
@kkarhan @protonmail thats like 2 years old
kkarhan@mstdn.social
@kimschulz doesn't make it less true to this day, m8.
Call me weird but @protonmail rubs me in all the wrong spots...
https://mstdn.social/@kkarhan/111340111561983148
protonmail@mastodon.social
@kkarhan Hi Kevin! As explained previously, this case shows that we do provide privacy by default - even in cases when we receive a legal request we cannot contest, we are not able to share the encrypted content on our service with the authorities. All we have is the extremely limited metadata that we need for the services to function properly. If anonymity is part of your threat model, here are some tips: https://proton.me/blog/how-to-send-an-anonymous-email and https://proton.me/blog/use-protonmail-anonymously.
protonmail@mastodon.social
@kkarhan This is really an issue with WKD not having a mechanism by which the key server can indicate whether they want encrypted email by default or not. However, we can block kernel.org specifically to fix this, if they reach out to us.
โfell@ma.fellr.net
@protonmail @kkarhan Tagging @monsieuricon because I think he would be the one to reach out to @protonmail on this matter.
โkkarhan@mstdn.social
@fell @monsieuricon also WHY should this be a problem for @linux / kernel.org to fix, @protonmail?
It's YOUR #Mailserver and YOUR Service not theirs.
Just don't fuck with customers' eMails FFS!
https://social.kernel.org/objects/b72e194b-401b-45ff-80e9-efebcb7f0ebd
To me this is entirely undesireable behaviour for any eMail-Provider but then again so is the entire proposition of not using real
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)protonmail@mastodon.social
@kkarhan @fell @monsieuricon We did not intend to say that think we say itโs their problem, itโs simply an unfortunate ambiguity in the WKD spec that doesnโt specify how the domain wants the keys to be used.
monsieuricon@social.kernel.org
@protonmail @kkarhan Having a WKD doesn't imply we want to receive PGP encrypted mail -- its primary purpose is to make it easy to retrieve keys for signature verification on git commits and packaged releases. If you can turn this off for kernel.org addresses, then please do so. โ
kkarhan@mstdn.social
@monsieuricon +9001%
To me @protonmail messing with customers' eMails in any shape or form is an absolute no-go!
Espechally given that they literally #paywall #SMTP & #IMAP "to protect from #Spanning".
The only legitimate reason they should ever do anything like it is if they - as bona-fide provider - get actually forced by a swiss judge to do so.
(Original message has been truncated: read the complete original message here.)Otherwise it's only harmful to users of actual
protonmail@mastodon.social
@monsieuricon @kkarhan Thank you for contacting us, we can confirm that we are now implementing a change.
โkkarhan@mstdn.social
@protonmail @monsieuricon It should just not be a necessity to get in contact with you on the first place ffs!!!
DO :clapping: NOT :clapping: FIDDLE :clapping: WITH :clapping: CUSTOMER :clapping: EMAILS :clapping: !
alcea@pb.todon.de
@kkarhan
I cant even sort my mails anymore lol
kkarhan@mstdn.social
@alcea I guess @protonmail is utterly useless because even shitty #honeypots like #DNMX allowed that...
monsieuricon@social.kernel.org
I'm sorry you didn't have a great experience -- fwiw, I'm working on making it easy to report bugs via bugzilla.kernel.org and actually have that be effective.
davidrevoy
@monsieuricon thank you, and no problem. I understand a mailing list system to report require disciplin, spec and formating for all these team to collaborate. I less understood why Protonmail couldn't provide this tool. I thought they were more FOSS friendly...
Thank you for the link, and the tracker! I'll have a look.
3 โmonsieuricon@social.kernel.org
Since you're a Fedora user, the most proper way to do this is to report a bug to the Fedora bug tracker. The Fedora kernel maintainers will then work with the upstream kernel to get this solved. This way you don't need to worry about Protonmail problems *and* you will follow the correct procedure.
davidrevoy
@monsieuricon Right ๐ Thank you for the guidance. Very appreciated,, I'll do.
4 โjwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
@monsieuricon And also say hi to @mairin who has deep knowledge of Fedora, graphic tablets and who to talk to when problems arise ;)
โmairin@mastodon.social
@jwildeboer @monsieuricon mairin@mastodon.ie :-)
doctormo@floss.social
In an extreme case, you could have the older driver packaged into a dkms rpm package. These get recompiled whenever the kernel is updated, so you don't have to compile the whole kernel with your customised drivers but you do get to have control over this one module.
But obviously, forking even a small bit of code can be a lot to take on. Better to get it fixed upstream somehow.
โdavidrevoy
@doctormo Thanks! Yes, it goes a bit beyond my current skill, but I started to have a look at how the digimend kernel module was doing things.
Making a small dedicated module that ensure the side buttons of stylus doesn't enter into any eraser mode sounds like a good idea if the situation become stagnant. I more and more understand how this modules can ammend existing code, and how they are not that hard to apply via DKMS.
But I lack of the main skill: editing the code. ๐๐
4 โleap123@wetdry.world
this pic goes hard feel free to screenshot
โpuniko@mk.absturztau.be
@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org ooof thats annoying
โilya_mzp@social.mango.vg
I'm not sure your tablet model would work with it, but you can give a try to https://github.com/OpenTabletDriver/OpenTabletDriver/
I too have an Xp-pen tablet that broke with a kernel update. Luckily OpenTabletDriver works just as good as it used to work with the older kernel.
Konqi@mastodon.social
that little penguin there need to calm down...
oscherler@tooting.ch
Iโm wondering if one of those utilities might work around the problem by changing the event before itโs seen by the rest of the input pipeline, or if itโs already too late.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Input_remap_utilities
saturnstudio@mas.to
Out of curiosity, have you tried the recent userspace driver provided by XP-Pen? I avoided it before because they had no tilt implementation on the Linux side, but I recently started using it and it seems to be working for me. I am on Kernel 6.5.9 and the XP-Pen app allows me to remap my stylus buttons.
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